Alamdar Hamdani is back on the podcast, but in a very different chair than last time. In Episode 19, he walked us through his journey to becoming U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Texas. Now he's a partner at Bracewell, building a government investigations and enforcement practice from scratch, and learning in real time what actually translates from running one of the largest U.S. Attorney's Offices in the country into private practice.

In this conversation, we dig into the skill set of "seeing around the corner" in an era where enforcement priorities are being telegraphed faster than ever: reading executive orders as leading indicators of DOJ policy, watching AAG social media accounts for enforcement signals, and synthesizing those data points into predictive counseling that actually gives general counsel something new to bring to their C-suite. We also get into the 360° view that comes from having been both a civil rights defense lawyer and a national security prosecutor, why the hustle of an immigrant cab driver's kid doesn't turn off when you land at a top-tier firm, and why the first thing he added to his weekly calendar was "Thursday: reach out to someone in the network."

Keep reading below for the full episode and the complete transcript of our conversation.

Top Insights

Below are the highlights of our conversation:

  • Seeing Around the Corner: This administration is unusually transparent about where it's heading. Alamdar's predictive framework: read the executive orders (day-one EOs tend to become DOJ policy in days, not months), watch what the AAGs post on X and LinkedIn, follow what SDNY and EDNY are charging, and look at the policy releases. The alpha is synthesizing those data points fast enough to give a client time to move before the subpoena hits.
  • The 360° View From Both Sides: Alamdar represented Muslim, South Asian, and Arab clients post-9/11 as a civil rights defense lawyer, then spent 17 years prosecuting national security cases at DOJ. That combination means when he counsels a client now, he can simultaneously map the holes in the prosecutor's case, the prosecutor's likely strategic framing, and how a jury will see it. Clients who only hire ex-prosecutors or only hire ex-defense lawyers are missing half the picture.
  • Reporting Up + Predicting = Business Development: As U.S. Attorney, his job was to report up to the DAG and AG and predict what would happen next. As a partner, his job is to do the same for in-house counsel, so they can do the same for the C-suite. Same skill, same discipline. Young associates who learn to "report up and predict" early are practicing the exact muscle senior partners use to counsel clients.
  • Self-Disclosure Is a Ticking Clock: With cartels now designated as foreign terrorist organizations, companies with even tangential third-party connections (a security vendor in Mexico affiliated with a cartel) can face material-support-of-terrorism exposure. Once a subpoena hits, the self-disclosure credit window has largely closed. The counsel's job is to pressure-test disclosure before that happens.
  • Humility Is the Operating System: Son of a London cab driver, sold newspapers door-to-door at 13 in a British accent nobody could parse. The rejections never stopped being instructive. Returning phone calls from every cold outreach now isn't just courtesy, it's the same discipline that made him the U.S. Attorney, and it's the one thing he believes any leader has to practice daily.

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Full Transcript

Khurram Naik: Alamdar, I am very glad to have you back on the podcast.

Alamdar Hamdani: Yeah, it's good to be back. It's good to be talking to you again, in a different role. It seems like yesterday when I was sitting in the U.S. Attorney's chair and was privileged to get to know you and talk about my journey. It's nice to be back, and to see where I'm at, to see where I've come. What I'm going to do, Khurram, if you do me the favor of checking in on me every couple of years, is I will go back and listen to these podcasts as my own personal diary.

Khurram Naik: We're going to add to the diary of Alamdar Hamdani, as well as you, Khurram, because the last time we spoke I think you had one kid, and now you have two. The last time we spoke, it was just you on your own, and now you have a business partner, who, from what I understand, is probably the real reason of your success. For those who don't know, Khurram is in business with his wife, which, frankly, I think is awesome, and many of us could be so lucky.

Khurram Naik: Well, we're risking making this episode about me. There's a metaphor of thinking of a business like a baby. A one-year-old business is like having a one-year-old, a two-year-old business like a two-year-old. You're still in your infant days again. Every time I've looked back on diaries of key experiences, I am surprised by things that were prescient. I'm reminded of things I couldn't even remember I was thinking about. This is going to be a really interesting counterpoint to your previous episode, because you were so in your senior days of that chapter. Now you're in junior days of the next chapter. What an interesting transition.

Alamdar Hamdani: Yes, I agree. In a couple of years.

Khurram Naik: Let's start talking about what that transition is like. Any number of people look at a U.S. Attorney returning from government and think, that lawyer's got it made, unbelievable experience and relationships, knows the DOJ inside out, they're going to crush it in private practice, it's playing on easy mode. Tell me what that attitude gets wrong.

Alamdar Hamdani: Look, there are some truths to it. When I was at the Department of Justice, I worked in three different offices. I worked in the Eastern District of Kentucky, a small office in a smaller district. Then I moved to Main Justice, where I spent five years chasing Al-Qaeda, Iran, and ISIS in the National Security Division as a trial lawyer, working with some of the best federal prosecutors in the country, SDNY, EDNY, SDTX. Then I became an AUSA in the Southern District of Texas, where I looked at national security and public corruption. I got to try some very important cases, look at some large investigations. And then I got to be the United States Attorney and build a new skill set as a leader within the DOJ, even got to be a part of the Attorney General's Advisory Committee, which was 11 U.S. Attorneys chosen by the AG to meet every six weeks and be part of the policymaking structure of the DOJ.

Alamdar Hamdani: Describing me as somebody who's had this incredible experience and knows the DOJ inside out is not an exaggeration. All of us former U.S. Attorneys who've had a long career at DOJ can describe what the halls of DOJ look and smell like, what AUSAs fret over, what FBI agents and ICE agents and HSI agents and ATF care about. That doesn't exactly mean I'm going to make a million dollars a day. It doesn't mean I'm going to get all the business on day one. I knew that when I left the Department. When firms hire people like me as partners coming in, they understand that as well. They're taking a bet. Bracewell takes a bet on me, and for all the other former U.S. Attorneys in private practice. The firms invest in us and say, we believe you can take that skill set, that experience, and translate it into business. The best firms are the ones that will say, we know it's going to take you a little time to get it. That patience, the patience that's being shown by Bracewell toward me, is comforting, but only so far, because guys and women like me are driven. As you know, Khurram, I'm the son of a cab driver. I'm a migrant. The only way you get to be the U.S. Attorney from that background is that you are driven and you are a hustler. You don't take what's been given to you for granted. My mother used to say this: if you laugh too much, you're going to cry. What an awful thing to say. If you're so happy, something you're going to be sad. But there's a little bit of migrant attitude: don't count on right now, because tomorrow may bring something bad, so let's prepare for that. I'm constantly thinking, it's great I'm being given this runway and this time, but I've got to make sure I get this. I've got to make sure that I'm able to be a productive member of the firm today.

Khurram Naik: Can you paint a picture of what it's like to leave the office? You have one of the most powerful, high-stakes roles in law, and then a week or two after that, you're no longer in the role. What was the first concrete moment you really felt, okay, I am no longer U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Texas?

Alamdar Hamdani: The good thing is, and it's because I have a family that keeps me grounded, a wife who I don't think has ever been impressed by anything I've ever accomplished career-wise, and is more impressed when I remember to clean the house or mow the lawn. What that means is my identity, for the most part, wasn't wrapped into being the U.S. Attorney. Did I take pride in being the U.S. Attorney? Absolutely. Did my mother take pride? Of course. She took my LinkedIn profile picture when I was U.S. Attorney, blew it up, and put it on the wall. Classic Indian mother.

Alamdar Hamdani: When November 6th happened, that's when Trump became president-elect, I was prepared to leave. As a political appointee, I served at the pleasure of the president. History has told me, especially with Trump, that he will get rid of U.S. Attorneys from prior administrations fairly rapidly. And he's right to. I was already preparing. On November 6th I told my office, I'm going to transition out, I'm going to leave prior to the new administration. I made a promise to my office that I will be your U.S. Attorney, and I will believe I'm going to be your U.S. Attorney, until election day. That meant I'm not going to look for a job, I'm not going to have one foot out the door until the election tells me I should. On November 6th I was prepared to transition out. I spent the next few months looking for a place to land, and I was blessed to have many opportunities. As a recruiter you know, it is often difficult for somebody coming out of government to find a landing spot. It helped that I was the former U.S. Attorney. So when did I really believe I would no longer be the U.S. Attorney? January 20th. I was okay with it because I'd come to terms with it. On January 20th I also realized I'm now going to have to be in a different mode. Build a book of business from scratch.

Khurram Naik: There are a few components I'm interested in. One is the substantive practice, what changes from U.S. Attorney to private practice. Another is business development, because there's no business development as a U.S. Attorney. You've been in private practice before, but now in returning, I'm curious what's been the difference in how you think through legal issues as a prosecutor versus private practice, and what has surprised you?

Alamdar Hamdani: I was in private practice before, and I had my own law firm for a few years before. I took on some national security cases as a criminal defense lawyer. I took on a bunch of pro bono civil rights cases post-9/11. That's important, because I had already learned how to have a client who is a defendant, how to talk to that client, how to understand and appreciate what they were going through. That was important, and it became a very important part of my time as a federal prosecutor, because of that experience. I was in a room as a very young lawyer right after 9/11, representing Muslims, South Asians, and Arabs. A person sitting next to me is a person from Pakistan who is scared. On the other side are two federal agents. That experience, that empathy, that curiosity, drove me as a prosecutor. When we were building national security cases where many of the folks on the other side were like the people I used to represent, it gave me a critical view of how things were being built. I could talk to an agent and explain, this is how it's going to happen, this is what it's going to look like on the other side.

Alamdar Hamdani: The wonderful thing about being a prosecutor and a defense lawyer, and now being a defense lawyer again, is I have been given the gift of analyzing issues on both sides. If somebody's been accused of wire fraud, I'll talk to the client, understand what happened, understand where the facts are. I can quickly look at the elements of the crime and understand where the holes are. But I may also counsel the client and say, these may be holes, but here's what I think the prosecutor is going to focus on, here's what the prosecutor thinks is the strength of his or her case, and here's what I think they think is the weakness. When we go to a jury, this is what it's going to look like. I can take all of that and say, this is in my opinion the best way to approach the prosecutor, do you really want to try this case because of this issue, or is it our time to plead the case. Because I have an understanding of both sides, I also have an understanding of how the client feels but also how the prosecutor feels. When I use AI to walk me through issues, the prompts I give are the prompts of somebody who's been both a criminal defense lawyer and a prosecutor. I get to look at it from a 360-degree view.

Alamdar's 360° view, seeing the case from the prosecutor's chair and the defense chair at the same time, is the same diversification argument Louis Tompros made in his episode about doing both plaintiff and defense work, both trial and appellate, patent and copyright. Adjacent experience sharpens the core. Listen to my conversation with Louis Tompros.

Khurram Naik: Is there something different about how you approach the substantive aspects of analyzing a case now that you did previously?

Alamdar Hamdani: Yes, because I didn't have the view of a prosecutor. Prior to joining the Department, I didn't know what a prosecutor goes through and thinks about. I'll give you a story. When I interviewed for the U.S. Attorney job, one of the senators asked me, Alamdar Hamdani, ACLU board, civil rights lawyer, prior to joining the government, and then Alamdar Hamdani, national security prosecutor, how have you changed? I said, the big difference between the Alamdar Hamdani sitting in front of you now, a national security prosecutor, as opposed to the Alamdar Hamdani who was just doing civil rights work, is this Alamdar Hamdani has a security clearance. I now know what's behind the curtain. I now know what the national security picture looks like. Before joining the government, I used to debate the U.S. Attorney's Office, I used to debate the DOJ, but I had debated out of a lack of understanding of what, for example, made a national security case. Now I approach a crime with the understanding of both a prosecutor and defense lawyer.

Khurram Naik: Let's add the dimension of business development. That's the biggest difference between private practice and government practice.

Alamdar Hamdani: Some things did not change. You had mentioned business development isn't in government practice. I will take issue with that. When you're a prosecutor, especially doing national security work, everything you do is above the fold, going after ISIS, Chinese and Iranian spies, Russian hackers. The cases don't fall into your lap. You have to hustle to get them. I had to work with agents and build not only a good body of work, but it meant hustling to get some of those cases, making sure agents understand that if we do good work in the Southern District of Texas, you don't have to go down to the Southern District of New York and have those guys prosecute it. Or if SDNY and EDNY are wanting to take my case, I'm going to fight my heart out to keep it in the Southern District of Texas. Often when I had a national security case, it would get briefed up quickly to leadership and FBI, so part of it is working with those agents and with Main Justice and FBI leadership and marketing to them. I will argue that kind of hustle, that kind of business development, is part of what you do as an AUSA.

Alamdar Hamdani: As the U.S. Attorney, I did a lot of social media interaction with the community, not only the legal community but the community in general. I wanted to demystify what we did in the office, but I also wanted to make sure the community knew to come to the U.S. Attorney's Office. I also wanted other parts of the DOJ to know that what we did in the office was important. I take all of that now into my business development role in private practice. I'm using social media. I'm using those contacts and that network to build my practice. A great example is a network of former FBI special agents in charge, former AUSAs, former DOJ folks, a network of former United States Attorneys I got to know over the past couple of years, that I built strong relationships with and kept in contact with, to help build my practice. Business development isn't just something that happened on January 20th, it's something that's been learned over 27 years of practice.

Alamdar's framing of business development as a long-run relationship play, networks built over decades that pay off years later, is exactly what Mani Walia described in his episode about the 2012 lunch with a struggling colleague that became one of the biggest litigation-funding deals of 2023. Intangibles become tangibles, with a decade's patience. Listen to my conversation with Mani Walia.

Khurram Naik: Steve Martin used to say, you'll use everything you ever knew. Something interesting you said is about the development of cases. Earning agents' attention so they come to you proactively, that's like being in-house, an open line of communication. Are there any analogues in private practice? My guess is when you're developing a case as a prosecutor, there's a tradeoff, you could lose the opportunity to prosecute. By way of analogy, in private practice, maybe we do something to service a client, even if we think we're on the verge of developing something deeper.

Alamdar Hamdani: There is. It's the constant calculus being analyzed by in-house counsel as it relates to the Department of Justice, specifically voluntary self-disclosure. Do you disclose to the government if you find wrongdoing within the organization? That calculus is one that in-house counsel, hopefully with good outside counsel who understand DOJ, can make. For example, this administration is focused on prosecution of cartels. Cartels have now been designated as foreign terrorist organizations. What that means is, to build a case against a cartel in the old days required having some sort of drug nexus. That doesn't need to happen anymore. Companies in Mexico hire security companies to provide security. That security company is owned by or affiliated with the cartels. Now the company that's hired the security firm can be accused of providing material support to terrorism, which can lead to 10x, 100x fines, or the amount of revenues it has in a particular year. If I'm a company and I discover that I've got a third-party contractor that may have a connection with a cartel, I'm going to ask, do I self-disclose? The DOJ may give me credit if I self-disclose. The DOJ will certainly ask me questions and now may probe into my company. What else will they find? Will I get a declination? Will it lead to some admission of guilt? Companies right now are really trying to decide whether it's ready. The great thing about being in this role as counselor: AI can replace some of the root legal work, but AI can't replace the human relationships and connections former DOJ people have created. AI can't take away the judgment of somebody like us when counseling clients on issues with hundreds of millions of dollars of ramifications. AI can't take away the ability to say, now is not the time. Let's do some more investigation. Once a subpoena hits, it may be too late to come forward and self-disclose. There's that ticking clock.

Khurram Naik: You probably had ideas in the office about the ways your skills would be useful in private practice. Now that you're a little more than a year out, maybe you have some changed opinions from experience. What has been unexpected that has turned out to be really helpful to clients?

Alamdar Hamdani: Let me talk about how I counsel, going back to what I observed growing up. My father was a cab driver. Sometimes as a kid he'd let me sit in the well of the cab and I would watch him. He had a black cab in England, which was a badge of honor, because to get a black cab, you had to drive all the routes, know all the streets, pass these tests. He was really proud of his black cab. We didn't have a car, just the black cab that stood outside our semi-detached house. I'd hide in the well of the passenger compartment and watch my father. He would pick up a passenger, take them from point A to point B, but more importantly, my father would learn why somebody went from A to B, because my father was a chatty cabbie. He talked in this wonderful Indian accent laced with British, and he really tried to accentuate the British part of his accent. He'd really make them feel comfortable, and they would tell my father, a stranger, a skinny brown stranger, about why they went from point A to point B, what was going on in their world. That was a skill born from empathy, from curiosity, grounded in service to that person, and with patience, because he listened. And then he'd try to tell some joke in a British Indian accent and make them laugh. To this day I tell the best dad jokes.

Alamdar Hamdani: With clients I am empathetic. I really want to know what happened. Just because the prosecutor has accused a client of something, or just because it looks like the client may have committed wire fraud, I'm going to listen. I'm curious. I've got to keep an open mind. At the end of the day, I'm going to give you advice based upon my service to you, and I'm going to be patient in how I give that advice. It's going to take me time. I'm not just going to give you an answer in the meeting. I'm going to want to listen first. Our calls are going to be long initially, because I want to know what's going on. Clients have responded well. It's created a very good attorney-client relationship, one built from trust, one built from understanding, both ways. It works for me. Others may be more strident, get to the chase. I'm not that guy.

Khurram Naik: In building a practice, there's this assumption about white collar and government enforcement, but maybe you can talk about the mix of work you've put yourself in. You could do civil litigation, criminal, white collar. What are the pros and cons of a practice driven by one of these, and how are you thinking about the mixture?

Alamdar Hamdani: Because I did commercial litigation before I joined the Department, I'm comfortable doing both civil and criminal litigation. Because I ran one of the largest civil divisions of a U.S. Attorney's Office, I'm also comfortable doing civil work as it relates to DOJ enforcement, as opposed to only white collar criminal. I'm trying to develop all parts of my practice. What makes my approach unique is my network consists of former DOJ attorneys, former U.S. Attorneys, and folks I knew when I was doing civil work before joining the Department. The network I created to become U.S. Attorney, a big, brown, South Asian network, is also important. One thing about me: when I reach out to a former U.S. Attorney or a South Asian attorney, I often get back a phone call, which is not always the case in this world. I miss that when I was the U.S. Attorney, folks would always return my phone calls. That's not always the case now. You've got to get over it. It is often a hit to your ego. I will always return somebody else's call. Even if someone cold-calls me, I will listen and be respectful, because that happened to me as an AUSA. Certain AUSAs in other offices would treat me like crap. I never forgot. When I was U.S. Attorney, I always told my AUSAs to treat DOJ lawyers with the utmost respect. If somebody calls me and asks to meet, I'm not going to ignore their phone calls, I'm not going to be a jerk.

Khurram Naik: Can you talk about the pros and cons of niching hard right now versus building broadly?

Alamdar Hamdani: Niching is good. For me right now it's government enforcement and investigations, that's my real sweet spot, both civil and criminal. The benefit is you can market the area you'll be good at. At the same time, I'm building a practice from scratch, so I've got to use my skill set from my prior life as a commercial litigator. I've brought in commercial litigation matters that draw upon that experience. For example, a commercial litigation matter that required advocacy in front of a public entity, or one where Fifth Amendment issues were at stake for a client. I can marry both worlds. My sweet spot is 17 years as a trial lawyer. One thing I bring that other commercial litigators may not always have is having tried cases, having tried a bunch. I've given speeches in front of massive crowds as U.S. Attorney. I've given press conferences as U.S. Attorney. Those skills are transferable. I feel comfortable understanding both the press issues as well as the legal issues for a client, because I was in there. I understand what makes a U.S. Attorney tick, including what he or she thinks about when thinking press strategy for their office.

Alamdar Hamdani: Every day I look at the X accounts of people like Harmeet Dhillon, the AAG for civil rights. She puts out content which makes me constantly think, how is this going to affect my client? She'll put out content that relates to issues I don't know about, that I'm going to learn real quick so I can advise clients in that space. Looking at the social media accounts of DOJ officials, or those this administration cares about, is something I'm trying to develop as a new skill.

Khurram Naik: I want to pick up on predictive counseling. You're starting to mine different types of data, different types of insights that other people wouldn't have a clue would be relevant. Can you talk about predictive counseling?

Alamdar Hamdani: Helping a client see around the corner is really a big part of what I do as a government investigations partner. That is to help a client look around the corner by leveraging all of my skills. Taking the different data points out there: the one thing about this administration, whether you agree with it or not, is it is incredibly transparent about what it's going to do. You can take an executive order the president has signed and pretty much understand that within a short order, because of the way this administration is set up, the White House and the DOJ will be aligned, that executive order will probably become DOJ policy pretty fast. Unlike other administrations, where DOJ policy sometimes took months, if not years, to develop. That's your first data point.

Alamdar Hamdani: Second, look at what the DOJ is saying. They're very transparent. Look at social media. Leadership is quite active, whether it's Todd Blanche or Pam Bondi, whether it's AAGs for the Criminal Division, Civil Division, Civil Rights Division, all in varying degrees on different platforms, X being one, LinkedIn being another. Look at what they're highlighting. Look at what the U.S. Attorney's Office is highlighting. I did it when I was U.S. Attorney. I would talk about cases that were important to me. It's probably going to be important to the office, probably important to leadership at DOJ. Policies are coming out every day. Look at what's being charged out of SDNY and EDNY on fraud, understand that's going to be a priority. A great example: the Southern District of Texas along the border had the most prosecutions, a lot driven by immigration. As former U.S. Attorney, I understand what HSI and ICE care about. You're going to see an increase in enforcement by HSI and ICE. What does that mean for businesses that do business in the Southern District of Texas?

Khurram Naik: How exactly are you communicating to clients, building that relationship, sharing insights?

Alamdar Hamdani: First of all, getting smart on the issue, from my own experience, researching it, understanding it, and talking to experts within my firm. I don't have to be an expert on everything. Tapping into the expertise within Bracewell. Stress-testing before I approach a client. You don't want to approach a potential client with a half-baked idea. That could backfire. Then approaching the potential client with, look, this is what I'm seeing, I want you to know about it. Having that initial phone call. Not a massive write-up. This is what I'm seeing, let's talk about it. Then having that discussion. You've got to know the issue pretty well, because the in-house counsel at an oil and gas firm is going to know oil and gas issues better than you. But what the in-house counsel doesn't know for the most part is what's going on at DOJ, what you think about DOJ, what you think is about to be enforced. That's the additional insight you bring. Now you've given your client something new to think about, something to talk to the C-suite about, or to the compliance team. That's a value add.

Alamdar Hamdani: I do a lot of AI research. AI has become incredibly powerful. I don't have the time to do a bunch of Google searches. I have powerful AI tools within the firm that I am using constantly, to refine my idea and refine how I speak about it. I will take memos I've written, speeches I've given, things I've done, and put them as part of what the AI tool will look at. They will also look at what I've done within the firm, so I can be smart about what I talk about.

Khurram Naik: Part of what you're talking about is packaging things to help your counterparts look smart with the team they roll up to, the C-suite. You're arming them with tools to approach the C-suite. How well do the incentives of a U.S. Attorney map onto a CEO?

Alamdar Hamdani: I've never been a CEO, but I have led an organization of 400 employees and 200 federal prosecutors, answerable to the Deputy Attorney General and the Attorney General on a semi-regular basis. One thing you learn as an AUSA, but really have to use as U.S. Attorney, is the ability to report up and predict. I was constantly doing that. Reporting up a massive issue I think is happening in the Southern District of Texas, or reporting up a big case, and giving them, this is what I think is going to happen as a result. I take that same view as to the role of in-house counsel or general counsel. Their job is to protect the company just as it is the C-suite's. Their job is to protect the interests of shareholders. They do that by reporting up to the C-suite, just as they have people reporting up to them. They're reporting up and predicting what's going to happen. Same skills I'm using when counseling clients. I'm reporting up what's happening and predicting what's going to happen as a result. You don't have to be the U.S. Attorney or CEO or CLO to understand that skill. Young associates at a law firm are constantly reporting up to their partners, if they're doing it right. When they report up, they don't just report up, they report up and go, and this is what I think is going to happen. That's a skill learned when they're a young associate. It's what we're all doing at smaller levels on much more impactful levels.

Alamdar's predictive-counseling framework is a close cousin of what Tim Yoo described in his episode: elite performers use deliberate preparation and decision trees so they're not reactive under pressure. Alamdar's version is reading executive orders and AAG posts as leading indicators, so clients aren't reactive when the subpoena shows up. Listen to my conversation with Tim Yoo.

Khurram Naik: Is there a piece of work you're most proud of in the past six months?

Alamdar Hamdani: Trump had issued an executive order on day one relating to DEI, which was a sea change from how the Biden administration did it. I understood that things were changing in that realm, not only for companies using DEI in the workplace, but how this administration would take that issue and use it within its enforcement structure, i.e., how the DOJ would take that particular statement in an EO and use it to enforce the behavior of private companies or public institutions. I figured it would, and I reached out to a public institution and said, I think this is going to happen. And it did. Because of that, I was able to help that institution get ahead of the curve. DEI, according to this administration, maps onto the Supreme Court case SFFA v. Harvard. They've extrapolated that case to mean companies that receive federal funds cannot have certain policies that would discriminate against not only African Americans but all races. If you receive federal funds, you're a federal contractor, and now you are subject to this administration's interpretation of that Supreme Court case. That has led to an enforcement mechanism by this DOJ that wasn't there before. That wasn't part of the Biden administration or the Trump one administration when it came to enforcement. It's a whole new enforcement mechanism.

Khurram Naik: What is one persistent misperception the private bar has about how enforcement attention forms?

Alamdar Hamdani: Why does an AUSA walk into a grand jury room and seek an indictment? That is the ultimate form of enforcement. Oftentimes they will think it's because the AUSA is driven by what the president has said, the political atmosphere, the political ethos. I would say for the most part, that's not the case. An AUSA is driven by the facts and the law, by what an agent has put in front of them based on an investigation. AUSAs for the most part do a good job of ignoring the noise of Washington, D.C., and focus on whether the case follows the facts and whether the case is one that deserves federal attention as opposed to maybe going to the state. Often private bar attorneys or people in general believe a prosecution is brought because of the political proclivities of a particular AUSA. That's not the case. As U.S. Attorney, I didn't know what the political leanings were of the people I led, nor did I care. AUSAs are apolitical animals. Whether this administration changes that perception, I'll leave for others to predict.

Khurram Naik: You talked about phone calls you can't always get returned. That's a big change from U.S. Attorney. What does this chapter taught you about resilience, setback, rejection?

Alamdar Hamdani: Let me go back to my father and leadership, and things I learned by watching. I learned about empathy, curiosity, service, patience. I also learned from my father, a man who had to raise a family, work two jobs, couldn't get past living paycheck to paycheck, finally was able to buy a house. I'll never forget when he had to pay his mosque dues every month, he couldn't afford it. You learn humility, you have to have humility. At 13 years old I sold newspapers door-to-door, spoke with a British accent, spoke too fast, and got rejected a lot. I learned to be humble, I learned to eat that, I learned I wasn't going to make much money. In college I sold New York Telephone subscriptions and Sesame Street books over the telephone, telephone sales. That teaches you humility. Along the way, I've learned to be humble.

Alamdar Hamdani: When I led the Southern District of Texas, I was humbled by my mistakes, and I made a lot. I sat down a couple of AUSAs and I apologized to them for an action I took, not expecting them to accept my apology. When you apologize, if you truly apologize, it's not about them accepting your apology, it's about them understanding you apologized and saying the words. Part of building a book of business from scratch, and not getting a return phone call, is understanding you are not on top of everybody's mind. That's part of being humbled. I don't think any of us can be effective leaders if we don't have humility as part of our daily makeup.

Khurram Naik: Was there any sense in you of, I did hard things to get here, why should I have to work hard again, why should I have to be rejected again, I've already done the hard stuff?

Alamdar Hamdani: No. Never felt that. I've never believed that I'm entitled to a damn thing. The one thing that makes this the greatest nation in the history of mankind is because those who come to this country, or those who are raised and born here, all believe at some point in their lives they can accomplish anything. They've got to strive. The ethos of the United States is who we are. I knew when I left that I was going to get rejected by some folks. Do I believe being the former U.S. Attorney might open some doors? Yes. But I never expected any door would open because I was a former U.S. I knew I had to open that door myself. I still feel that. I'll probably always feel that way. That's the one thing I try to instill in my children: nothing is ever going to be given to you.

Khurram Naik: Talk to me about the structure you've used in this building phase. How is that helping you resolve anxieties and the open-ended nature of this phase?

Alamdar Hamdani: For the past 15 or 16 years, I'm somebody who religiously exercises. Before I was a marathoner, got injured, and became a person who swims with a masters group every morning, five o'clock in the morning. When I was in law school, I wasn't healthy. Folks in law school ask me for one piece of advice: take care of your body and be healthy in law school. I learned that later in life. That's a big part of my routine. The other part is, I am present for my family. One of the gifts of being in the Department was you could be, you didn't make a lot of money, but you could be, and I thought I was a much better father and husband because of the Department. Then I am constantly working my list of contacts, building my network. Every day I see what's being pumped out from the Department, from the president, from different issues, trying to predict. How does the war in Iran manifest into issues in Houston? Into issues in the oil and gas industry?

Alamdar Hamdani: One thing I'd like to be better at is having a daily routine on that score. I've just added into my routine: every Thursday, I'm going to reach out to a part of my network and check up, make sure I keep that connection. Going to different offices in Washington, New York, Dallas, within Austin. Networking from outside, also networking within, building those friendships and relationships. Some of the best pieces of work I've had over the past year or so have been from partners within the firm who have been kind enough to give me work and draw upon my expertise. That takes a lot of trust for a partner to say, I want you to do this piece of work for me, be part of my team, and be client-facing. That tells you they have a lot of trust in you. One reason I joined Bracewell was I saw in the leadership the same leadership I had running the Southern District of Texas. I talked about in the prior podcast the mom-or-how-I-believe people should treat each other within the firm as they were their own mother, that same respect, that same sense of family. I get that here. Recently when I was in New York, I met with a partner and we spent two hours together just getting to know each other. That was incredibly impactful. I saw in him a version of myself.

Khurram Naik: For my final question, do some predictive counseling for Alamdar Hamdani. What do you see for yourself a year or two from now?

Alamdar Hamdani: A year or two from now, the overriding thing I'll still be doing is hustling. That's part of my upbringing since 13 years old. I'm 54 now. It's in my DNA. When we talk in a couple of years, I'll still be hustling. I'll still be taking care of myself, athletically, body-wise, spiritually. I'll also be doing predictive analysis. It's what I did at the Department. It's what I do now. It's what I enjoy. If I'm doing all those things, I'm hoping my book of business is growing. A few years from now, that book of business will be much larger, much more consistent, benefits Bracewell, benefits me, benefits my family. Along the way, I'm hopeful I will learn some new arrows in my quiver. Technology will be different a couple of years from now. I'm hopeful I'm constantly upgrading my skills. And I'm hopeful my network is larger, one that is constantly growing, not stagnant. I've had villages take care of me all along the way, and I'm going to need that village to constantly take care of me and for me to take care of.

Khurram Naik: Bonus question. You mentioned network. What role does network have that's different from an approach driven just by substance and analysis?

Alamdar Hamdani: As I sit here, there are those who build, there are those who are really just thought leaders, smart at what they do. There are those who are service partners. You can be all three. I'm hopeful I'll be all three. But each has a network. None of us doesn't have a network. We all have one. Even if you're a service partner and all you do is service other partners, that's a network you rely on. I can't see any lawyer, or any human, who doesn't have a network. So maybe the question is, do you tap into your network? I tap into mine. Do you want to grow your network? I want to grow mine. That's the real question.

Khurram Naik: I think we've got a good timestamp to revisit two years from now, to see how your predictions have borne out and what about your practice remains the same or has changed. Alamdar, thanks for sharing about this stage in your career. It's not often you get to talk to a U.S. Attorney who is returning to private practice and building. I appreciate you taking the time.

Alamdar Hamdani: Thank you, Khurram. It's always a joy, special to talk to you. I really enjoy our conversations, whether on a podcast or just on a phone call. Not only, of course, have you made this a good podcast, but you have devoted to making into a good friend. I appreciate it.